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Pic of Decoder with Nilay Patel

The OpenAI board member who fired Sam Altman says we still can't trust AI CEOs

November 14, 2026
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Decoder with Nilay Patel

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My guest today is Helen Toner, the executive director of CSET. This episode is part two of our series on AI in real life. Helen is a well-known figure in the AI safety and policy community, though she is perhaps best known for having served on the board of OpenAI, where was one of four board members who voted to fire Sam Altman.  Since then, AI safety has entered the mainstream, as industry leaders have made increasingly dire predictions about what might happen if we don’t proceed more carefully or even slow down. Helen has seen up close what happens when safety commitments run headlong into commercial incentives. As she put it to me, if our hopes for the future depend on any one person being trustworthy, we’re in big trouble.  Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links:  The AIs are already out of control | The Ezra Klein Show AI broke the cybersecurity world. What’s next? | Decoder Ex-OpenAI board member shares why the AI panic Is good news | Offline Inside the suddenly explosive world of AI safety | The Verge OpenAI hack of Hugging Face was “expected” | The Verge Why Sam Altman was booted from OpenAI, according to new testimony | The Verge Former OpenAI board member explains why they fired Sam Altman | The Verge Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. The show is edited by Xander Adams and Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices